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	<title>Comments on: Cheese Monkeys, by Chip Kidd</title>
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	<description>A blog for graphic designers</description>
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		<title>By: Jeff Klein</title>
		<link>http://www.beadesigngroup.com/blog/archives/2004/05/cheese-monkeys-by-chip-kidd.php/comment-page-1#comment-32</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Klein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 04:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>www.oneherocreative.com
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.oneherocreative.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.oneherocreative.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Klein</title>
		<link>http://www.beadesigngroup.com/blog/archives/2004/05/cheese-monkeys-by-chip-kidd.php/comment-page-1#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Klein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 04:23:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beadesigngroup.com/2004/05/24/cheese-monkeys-by-chip-kidd/#comment-31</guid>
		<description>Lanny Sommese Rocks and so does Chip. PSU Class of 98&#039; - DZIN... That is what keeps me going. Thanks Lanny &amp; Kristin! You are my Hero.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lanny Sommese Rocks and so does Chip. PSU Class of 98&#8242; &#8211; DZIN&#8230; That is what keeps me going. Thanks Lanny &#038; Kristin! You are my Hero.</p>
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		<title>By: Erica</title>
		<link>http://www.beadesigngroup.com/blog/archives/2004/05/cheese-monkeys-by-chip-kidd.php/comment-page-1#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>Erica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Nov 2006 08:10:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beadesigngroup.com/2004/05/24/cheese-monkeys-by-chip-kidd/#comment-30</guid>
		<description>OK, so it is now November, 2006. I realize this is over an entire year after the last post, so I don&#039;t know if this will even be read by anyone. I am doing a research project on Chip Kidd and came across this site. Anyway, all of these posts were very interesting to read (I have also read The Cheese Monkeys). I went to Penn State. I was in their design program. I met Lanny and his wife Kristin. I have also heard Chip Kidd speak at PSU. In fear of certain people reading this, I hesitate to spill my guts here. (Although Lanny uses a computer very infrequently last I checked.) However, I thought I would put it out there that if anyone has any questions about the real Penn State design program you can contact me! I will say this: I left Penn State&#039;s design program for another.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, so it is now November, 2006. I realize this is over an entire year after the last post, so I don&#8217;t know if this will even be read by anyone. I am doing a research project on Chip Kidd and came across this site. Anyway, all of these posts were very interesting to read (I have also read The Cheese Monkeys). I went to Penn State. I was in their design program. I met Lanny and his wife Kristin. I have also heard Chip Kidd speak at PSU. In fear of certain people reading this, I hesitate to spill my guts here. (Although Lanny uses a computer very infrequently last I checked.) However, I thought I would put it out there that if anyone has any questions about the real Penn State design program you can contact me! I will say this: I left Penn State&#8217;s design program for another.</p>
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		<title>By: Melissa</title>
		<link>http://www.beadesigngroup.com/blog/archives/2004/05/cheese-monkeys-by-chip-kidd.php/comment-page-1#comment-29</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Aug 2005 18:28:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beadesigngroup.com/2004/05/24/cheese-monkeys-by-chip-kidd/#comment-29</guid>
		<description>I am an undergrad. student in graphic design. Obviously I don&#039;t know much about design but I was given the &quot;Cheese Monkey&quot; to read over the summer. I, as others, couldn&#039;t put the book down until I had finished reading it. I was taught a few things, like how to think about what an &quot;effective&quot; design could be. I put myself in other peoples &quot;shoes&quot; (like if I saw a hitch hiker, what would make ME stop!!!). I was very disappointed though with the plot, and especially with the end.
 
 I have read the comments above. I think some are overreacting and seeing the book as if this is how Chip Kidd sees design etc. But the book is a fiction novel. Yes, I could relate to a lot especially from a design students point of view: how Winter is and how some of my professors were (and are) but I am not just talking about the negative aspects. Winter taught students to THINK and be CREATIVE which I needed to hear! Even though he sounds like a jerk thinking he is better, knows better about design than everyone else and therefore has the right to be unkind and disrespectful, NO! I think these later things are not how a professor should be, even though many are!
Also, I wanted to comment on what Nathan Voss said about showing his work to his students. I remember one professor showed his work and I thought it was a bunch of you know what. I didn&#039;t like the way they were either ( rude and insensitive). But when they said something which I knew I could learn from,I listened and have always remembered. Even though I saw in this persons work many things that I didn&#039;t like, it has helped me form my own style. (there has also been professors that showed there work and I have thought it was very, very impressive, getting the point across clearly and also showing a clean, nice presentation!!! 
What I am saying is that we (the students)  still listen even if we do not think there work is so great. Also, we know, that it is only out of insecurities that a professor does not show his/her work,  (leading us to think insecure of what; something negative, not good or interesting enough compared to what they &quot;preach&quot;.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am an undergrad. student in graphic design. Obviously I don&#8217;t know much about design but I was given the &#8220;Cheese Monkey&#8221; to read over the summer. I, as others, couldn&#8217;t put the book down until I had finished reading it. I was taught a few things, like how to think about what an &#8220;effective&#8221; design could be. I put myself in other peoples &#8220;shoes&#8221; (like if I saw a hitch hiker, what would make ME stop!!!). I was very disappointed though with the plot, and especially with the end.</p>
<p> I have read the comments above. I think some are overreacting and seeing the book as if this is how Chip Kidd sees design etc. But the book is a fiction novel. Yes, I could relate to a lot especially from a design students point of view: how Winter is and how some of my professors were (and are) but I am not just talking about the negative aspects. Winter taught students to THINK and be CREATIVE which I needed to hear! Even though he sounds like a jerk thinking he is better, knows better about design than everyone else and therefore has the right to be unkind and disrespectful, NO! I think these later things are not how a professor should be, even though many are!<br />
Also, I wanted to comment on what Nathan Voss said about showing his work to his students. I remember one professor showed his work and I thought it was a bunch of you know what. I didn&#8217;t like the way they were either ( rude and insensitive). But when they said something which I knew I could learn from,I listened and have always remembered. Even though I saw in this persons work many things that I didn&#8217;t like, it has helped me form my own style. (there has also been professors that showed there work and I have thought it was very, very impressive, getting the point across clearly and also showing a clean, nice presentation!!!<br />
What I am saying is that we (the students)  still listen even if we do not think there work is so great. Also, we know, that it is only out of insecurities that a professor does not show his/her work,  (leading us to think insecure of what; something negative, not good or interesting enough compared to what they &#8220;preach&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.beadesigngroup.com/blog/archives/2004/05/cheese-monkeys-by-chip-kidd.php/comment-page-1#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Dec 2004 00:24:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beadesigngroup.com/2004/05/24/cheese-monkeys-by-chip-kidd/#comment-28</guid>
		<description>My daughter, aged 19 and a sophomore in college, recommended this book to me yesterday. I finished it in almost one sitting.

Everything about this book is about the oft repeated notion of &quot;thinking outside the box.&quot; The graphic design on of the book itself...the &quot;plot&quot;... in other words, both style AND substance, the book breaks new ground based on a now old theme.

Parts of it were fascinating...the assignments in Spring Semester 1958, for example.

The book ultimately goes haywire--- plotwise... as so many books do. But ultimately what I love about the book, is that it&#039;s not about the coming of age of young starving graphic artists.  

I&#039;m an old retired business exec; former actor; now poet. And I found it refreshing and viable. 

Of course I could relate to a lot of it having just published my own book of poetry wherein, I try to bring graphic elements to bear on a genre notoriously about the words....just the words. Poets almost consider any attempt at graphic art accompanyment to be sacriligeous.

If you&#039;re curious...have a look www.domenicapress.com
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My daughter, aged 19 and a sophomore in college, recommended this book to me yesterday. I finished it in almost one sitting.</p>
<p>Everything about this book is about the oft repeated notion of &#8220;thinking outside the box.&#8221; The graphic design on of the book itself&#8230;the &#8220;plot&#8221;&#8230; in other words, both style AND substance, the book breaks new ground based on a now old theme.</p>
<p>Parts of it were fascinating&#8230;the assignments in Spring Semester 1958, for example.</p>
<p>The book ultimately goes haywire&#8212; plotwise&#8230; as so many books do. But ultimately what I love about the book, is that it&#8217;s not about the coming of age of young starving graphic artists.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m an old retired business exec; former actor; now poet. And I found it refreshing and viable. </p>
<p>Of course I could relate to a lot of it having just published my own book of poetry wherein, I try to bring graphic elements to bear on a genre notoriously about the words&#8230;.just the words. Poets almost consider any attempt at graphic art accompanyment to be sacriligeous.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re curious&#8230;have a look <a href="http://www.domenicapress.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.domenicapress.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bennett</title>
		<link>http://www.beadesigngroup.com/blog/archives/2004/05/cheese-monkeys-by-chip-kidd.php/comment-page-1#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Dec 2004 22:31:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beadesigngroup.com/2004/05/24/cheese-monkeys-by-chip-kidd/#comment-27</guid>
		<description>Jel,

It is great to hear a non-designer&#039;s perspective. I have had many discussions about this book, but rarely with anyone outside of the design field. I was so happy to read a fiction book about design that it was hard to look at this book objectively.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jel,</p>
<p>It is great to hear a non-designer&#8217;s perspective. I have had many discussions about this book, but rarely with anyone outside of the design field. I was so happy to read a fiction book about design that it was hard to look at this book objectively.</p>
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		<title>By: Jel</title>
		<link>http://www.beadesigngroup.com/blog/archives/2004/05/cheese-monkeys-by-chip-kidd.php/comment-page-1#comment-26</link>
		<dc:creator>Jel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Dec 2004 21:53:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beadesigngroup.com/2004/05/24/cheese-monkeys-by-chip-kidd/#comment-26</guid>
		<description>Yes, an interesting discussion! I&#039;m an avid reader of both fiction and non-fiction which has thought-provoking ideas, interesting perspectives and fresh points of view. (I&#039;m not a &#039;designer&#039; btw).

Interesting perspectives on Winter and design aside, I disliked the Cheese Monkeys. Where it tried to be provocative and inventive it succeeded in being distasteful and dull. The  story was partly developed and the ending was flat and desperate. Writing ploys are no substitute for plot. For a complex project, Chip should understand the importance of having a solid design plan before implementing the idea. A handful of ideas does not make a novel.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, an interesting discussion! I&#8217;m an avid reader of both fiction and non-fiction which has thought-provoking ideas, interesting perspectives and fresh points of view. (I&#8217;m not a &#8216;designer&#8217; btw).</p>
<p>Interesting perspectives on Winter and design aside, I disliked the Cheese Monkeys. Where it tried to be provocative and inventive it succeeded in being distasteful and dull. The  story was partly developed and the ending was flat and desperate. Writing ploys are no substitute for plot. For a complex project, Chip should understand the importance of having a solid design plan before implementing the idea. A handful of ideas does not make a novel.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.beadesigngroup.com/blog/archives/2004/05/cheese-monkeys-by-chip-kidd.php/comment-page-1#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Nov 2004 21:26:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beadesigngroup.com/2004/05/24/cheese-monkeys-by-chip-kidd/#comment-25</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve shown my students nothing of my own work at this point, Nate, intentionally so that their assessment of my design skills or lack thereof will not hinder their responses to the direction I&#039;m giving in the classroom. Looking back on my own experience as a student I recognize the many ways that my understanding and appreciation of art &amp; design were immature at that point, as well as the curious ways that my appreciation of and insight into certain works and certain aspects of them was well ahead of my own understanding.

That said, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s beneficial to give students too early an experience of the end product of our work but I&#039;ve found it very beneficial to include regular discussions and possible developmental aspects of projects I&#039;m currently pursuing so they have a contextual experience of professional practice as they are &quot;working in the lab&quot;, so to speak.

You nailed a challenging student perspective in your closing quip: &quot;Well, Mr. Voss didn&#039;t like it, but I&#039;ve seen how he designs, and I still think it&#039;s really good.&quot; - I think we also have to work diligently as instructors to tutor students out of responding to design from a &quot;like / dislike&quot; perspective. Hopefully we&#039;re offering them skills of both evaluation and execution as we teach, and we have to challenge their evaluations regularly by forcing them to actually describe their reasons for terming something &quot;really good / really bad&quot;. We&#039;re not asking for their opinions of work, we&#039;re asking for their assessments of work - a distinction I&#039;ve felt many teachers do not make clearly enough in their classrooms, especially in teaching artistic practices.

Our production as working designers / artists will ultimately come to light in exhibitions and should come to light in the various trade publications that we read - this confirms our position as participating not only in the practice but in the dialogue of the field as well, and this offers our students the chance to see how we personally survive in the arenas they are preparing to enter.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve shown my students nothing of my own work at this point, Nate, intentionally so that their assessment of my design skills or lack thereof will not hinder their responses to the direction I&#8217;m giving in the classroom. Looking back on my own experience as a student I recognize the many ways that my understanding and appreciation of art &#038; design were immature at that point, as well as the curious ways that my appreciation of and insight into certain works and certain aspects of them was well ahead of my own understanding.</p>
<p>That said, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s beneficial to give students too early an experience of the end product of our work but I&#8217;ve found it very beneficial to include regular discussions and possible developmental aspects of projects I&#8217;m currently pursuing so they have a contextual experience of professional practice as they are &#8220;working in the lab&#8221;, so to speak.</p>
<p>You nailed a challenging student perspective in your closing quip: &#8220;Well, Mr. Voss didn&#8217;t like it, but I&#8217;ve seen how he designs, and I still think it&#8217;s really good.&#8221; &#8211; I think we also have to work diligently as instructors to tutor students out of responding to design from a &#8220;like / dislike&#8221; perspective. Hopefully we&#8217;re offering them skills of both evaluation and execution as we teach, and we have to challenge their evaluations regularly by forcing them to actually describe their reasons for terming something &#8220;really good / really bad&#8221;. We&#8217;re not asking for their opinions of work, we&#8217;re asking for their assessments of work &#8211; a distinction I&#8217;ve felt many teachers do not make clearly enough in their classrooms, especially in teaching artistic practices.</p>
<p>Our production as working designers / artists will ultimately come to light in exhibitions and should come to light in the various trade publications that we read &#8211; this confirms our position as participating not only in the practice but in the dialogue of the field as well, and this offers our students the chance to see how we personally survive in the arenas they are preparing to enter.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Voss</title>
		<link>http://www.beadesigngroup.com/blog/archives/2004/05/cheese-monkeys-by-chip-kidd.php/comment-page-1#comment-24</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Voss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Nov 2004 19:13:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beadesigngroup.com/2004/05/24/cheese-monkeys-by-chip-kidd/#comment-24</guid>
		<description>Ack. You should be able to edit these things when you catch typos too late. &quot;You you not√ñ&quot; ought to be &quot;do you not√ñ&quot;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ack. You should be able to edit these things when you catch typos too late. &#8220;You you not√ñ&#8221; ought to be &#8220;do you not√ñ&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Voss</title>
		<link>http://www.beadesigngroup.com/blog/archives/2004/05/cheese-monkeys-by-chip-kidd.php/comment-page-1#comment-23</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Voss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Nov 2004 19:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beadesigngroup.com/2004/05/24/cheese-monkeys-by-chip-kidd/#comment-23</guid>
		<description>Highly insightful, Paul. I&#039;m going to post on Education shortly, but one quick question for you. Do you, or you you not, show your students your professional work? 

I&#039;m interested because thus far (and this is my introductory semester) I have not and am forcing my students to &#039;take my word for it&#039; when I lecture and not quantifying my skills and knowledge by showing my work. What I&#039;m trying to avoid is &quot;Well, Mr. Voss didn&#039;t like it, but I&#039;ve seen how *he* designs, and I still think it&#039;s really good.&quot;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Highly insightful, Paul. I&#8217;m going to post on Education shortly, but one quick question for you. Do you, or you you not, show your students your professional work? </p>
<p>I&#8217;m interested because thus far (and this is my introductory semester) I have not and am forcing my students to &#8216;take my word for it&#8217; when I lecture and not quantifying my skills and knowledge by showing my work. What I&#8217;m trying to avoid is &#8220;Well, Mr. Voss didn&#8217;t like it, but I&#8217;ve seen how *he* designs, and I still think it&#8217;s really good.&#8221;</p>
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