Nate, I heard Seth on NPR the other day, so he is hardly obscure. I’m not saying that you should absolutly know who he is, but he is not an unknown.

Come on Seth. Just because you can get it for free, doesn’t mean you should. Your results will suffer.

I think the AIGA should rethink having him on any future Advisory Councils

I think you guys are being a bit unfair here.

First off, I hire plenty of designers. Stuff that has made a big impact on the book world, the online world and even a real product or two.

Second, it’s obvious that what I’m looking for is quite small (one online ad, not part of a campaign) and it’s inappropriate for it to be part of what an ad agency does so well—account management, objectives setting, project management. It would be a waste, imho.

But the real reason you’re not being fair is that the offer is quite simple. There are tons of people that would like to put their work in front of the millions that use MSN. And a few of those people read my blog. If they want to enter, they will. If they don’t (and you don’t), then don’t. But to vilify me for making the offer is just mean.

I guess my comment here is strike three. Sorry.

Hmmm…

I agree that people shouldn’t just expect recurring design work for free all the time… especially when the proceeds of that work is for profit… but does that mean we, as graphic designers, shouldn’t donate our work on occasion to a cause that we agree with?

I am in the middle of reading the big moo right now and I have to say, it’s a collection of brilliance, from a rather large group of smart people. Brilliance that was donated, I might add, for the cause of spreading these ideas and generating some cash for some worthy charities.

The ideas in this book are of the kind that when I read them, I think to myself, “I wish everyone in the company I work for read it… it calls out all of the stupid things we do every day and suggests ways of fixing them through creativity.” As a designer who feels this way about this book, why on earth WOULDN’T I want to donate an ad concept for this? If Seth expected all the contributors to donate their time and energy, why shouldn’t he expect the same for the 1-time ad insertion going on msn?

Now, if your quabbles are with the fact that Seth opened the contest to gasp amateurs, well then I have to wonder, why does that frighten you so much?

In the grand scheme of things, doesn’t having amateurs entering this contest along side professional designers raise the awareness of graphic design’s importance to a lot of people who, otherwise, wouldn’t have noticed?

I dunno… maybe I’m wrong.

This is a charity project, not spec work.

Are we suddenly so special, we must attack any designer that dares to donate to charity?

Drew, I think you’re wrong.

But not in your conclusion that free design devalues our profession. Obviously this is true.

You are wrong in identifying this as free design. Designers all over the country do pro bono work all the time. It doesn’t devalue design, because it has value. If it didn’t, how could it be donated? If you wrote a $0 check to the March of Dimes would it still be a donation?

Would it make you feel better if Seth wrote a letter of credit to the winning designer? That’s what I do with my own pro bono design work. That way I can claim the full value of my work against my taxes as a charitable deduction. Maybe if that was done here, it would be clear to everyone that this is NOT work done for free, it is valuable work donated to charity.

Okay, no more posting comments while working. I missed your emphasis on the contest aspect, Drew, and for that I apologize.

Personally, it doesn’t bother me because it’s all for a good cause and no one profits. But you’re right that in other circumstances, if someone was holding a contest just to get free design, it would be bad.

What if instead a group of designers volunteered to critique/discuss all of the submitted designs on a separate website or forum? That way anyone entering the contest got valuable feedback. Several design and illustration online groups I’ve belonged to have done this in the past, and no one thought it harmed our industry. If all participants got something out of it, would it be better?

Ok… spec work is just wrong… period.

“…you do an ad on spec, and if it’s great, you get publicity far and wide, leading, perhaps to not just good feelings around holiday time but plenty of new business, and maybe a shot at being on Oprah, if that’s your business. Amateurs are welcome to apply.”

We’ve covered the spec work aspect of this pretty extensively - I’d just like to highlight the continuing carrot that seems to be dangled around any of the “design to win” type of competitions: “leading, perhaps to not just good feelings around holiday time BUT PLENTY OF NEW BUSINESS”.

I can’t count the number of designers I’ve spoken with who have had work appear in annuals, shown their work on-line, and even done work for some pretty high-profile venues and almost every one of them has talked about the fact that they can’t pinpoint a single client that actually came their way as a result of work they’d seen in an annual. Anyone have any stories that prove this wrong?

It’s just amazing that our egos and our revenue stream are continuously called into service when it comes to pulling further work out of us - nothing like a little national exposure to get those free creative juices flowing, right?

I’d be particularly curious to see if anyone has any idea who ended up designing the final on-line ad Seth asked for in a month, two months, a year, etc AND I’d love to see the list of work that comes in as a result of having “won” that honor.

Is it completely unreasonable to suggest that the main problem is that Seth just plain used a Bad Word? Nobody seems to really be objecting to the concept of donating work, or contests. But frankly, the moment you say spec, you’re going to have a bunch of pissed off designers glaring at you. I don’t know much about Seth, but there seems to be an opinion that he probably should’ve known better than to use that term.

As for opening this as a contest, it doesn’t (necessarily) cheapen anybody, although it’s maybe a bit lazy? Which isn’t a bad thing in all cases, either. On the other hand, it gives people whom Seth might not have asked—both good and bad—a chance at a fair bit of exposure, and provides everyone a chance at surprise. Sure, he can just ask people he knows and whose work he likes, but what if some unknown kid who should get some attention pops up with something amazing?

Be honest, people. There’s nothing to see here but a bad choice of words. It’s a contest, not spec work. There is actually a functional difference. With a contest, you know you’re throwing your work down a hole and hoping to get something out of it. Spec work is essentially a client cheaping out of paying you for initial revisions with no promise to pay you for anything at all. This is, in a pretty literal sense, the same as the poster contests held all the time, even by the AIGA, which I’m sure not a single one of you has ever entered.

Su and Kevin… i couldn’t have said it better myself. Amen.

I think my issue with it is the way that it was requested. If the request had been worded as follows:

MSN has been kind enough to provide me with the means to promote this book to a larger audience with a banner on their site. To get there, however, I need to design the actual ad. I’m not a designer, and I won’t pretend to be one, so I’m asking my readers for help designing the ad. Because of the (hopefully) large number of individuals who will be submitting work, I have to ask that ads be submitted in finished form — the overhead of one person so many rough concepts would be too great. Because of the nature of the project (profits are going to charity) I’m not able to pay for the work, and I won’t insult anyone with the “fame and future fortune” line — but if anybody wants to be involved in something cool, and maybe get some decent exposure for some work, help is appreciated.

Ok, so not those words exactly, but if the tone was different, if it was a simple and human request for people to get involved, it wouldn’t have felt like a kick in the ribs to an industry that is already on the ground.