Be A Design Cast 13 : Getting A Job Is Like Dating
by Nate Voss, (22 comments)

Today on the unlucky 13th BADCast, Donovan coerces me to talk about Apple’s Boot Camp for six or seven minutes before we get to the real news of today’s show: It’s Spring, and student designers everywhere are graduating! We cover how to get a job as a recently minted student designer from the closest parallel experience: Men (student designers—including female student designers) hitting on Women (companies/agencies/design firms). It’s a surprisingly deep analogy. Here’s a taste:
Portfolio = Sexy body A sexy body might get you talking to a lot of girls, but a good personality fit is what it takes to end up in a relationship (freelancing excluded). Conversely, a sloppy, out-of-shape body will make it harder for women to want to talk to you and discover the inner creative genius underneath the flab.
Enjoy! And good luck, graduates.
Right click to download Be A Design Cast 13 to your computer (7.6mb), or subscribe directly from iTunes.

Comments (22)
zj gray said:
In case Nate or anyone else is actually reading these this week, it’d be nice to do a few features on great currently active designers/firms/agencies, just throw ‘em out.
You know, just a list of like 5 a week to encourage readers to check out their websites and post. Young blood, forgotten favorites, just plain solid designers, etc.
Here are a few ideas:
Büro Destruct
Michael Doret
Headcase Design
Copious Creative
The Chopping Block
So, yeah, maybe these are already well known, maybe not, but why don’t we offset all of the making fun of bad design with standing in awe of good design.
Those in the know should spread the love and share these sites. After all, most of us need a steady diet of inspiration to keep us fresh.
Thanks
-Zac
Posted on May 4, 2006
Sean Beverly said:
Great show this time. Some excellent tips for students like myself, and most resonate fairly true in my experiences looking for an internship this summer.
Keep it up. The podcast has really come a long way since its beginning.
Posted on May 5, 2006
William Alexander said:
Clicking to listen to your podcast in Safari gives me a page of code. This is what I’ve found to fix it, but it’s a you fix not a me fix:
At 9:30 PM -0400 4/16/06, Dave Bittner wrote: Anyone know why Safari won’t recognize .m4a files as being media files? Any time I click on a link on a web page with a .m4a file I get a string of text loading, rather than QT recognizing the file type. I can download the file and load it into QT player, but I really shouldn’t have to do that, should I? Is there something I’m missing?
That usually means that the mime type on the server has not been set for m4a. Safari recognizes .m4a fine for me but only from servers with the MIME type set correctly.
Cheers
Posted on May 5, 2006
Scott said:
Fellas,
Great show as usual. I enjoyed the analogy, as this is a subject very near to me these days. I recently finished my MA and relocated back to NYC, where I have had trouble finding steady work. I freelance to pay the bills, but it sucks.
One thing you didn’t mention was how to find “single girls” in the first place. I, for one, feel a bit disconnected, as if I’m not getting all the industry info - do you know any resources I may not be tapping into?
Also, its interesting to note that not only do I have no full-time employment, but I’m rubbish with women. So maybe the metaphor is deeper than you might think…
Posted on May 6, 2006
Nate Voss said:
Well, as Donovan said, having friends to introduce you is a good way to start meeting single women (didn’t listen to the show? Check it out and this will all make sense). To that end, you need connections to people in the industry. And it’s not enough to just say “connections,” really. Being “connected” doesn’t mean much on its own when you’re starting out.
The best place to make friends in the industry who know single ladies is AIGA. I know NYC has a gigantic chapter, based on population alone, but I’m not sure of how many low-casual events they hold. Out here, we do something called Third Thursday every month where we meet up at bar and drink and socialize with other designers. Its not “networking,” per se, it’s just getting to know the people in the industry.
The trick is that most people aren’t going to know of job openings immediately when you meet them. But if you make a few friends, and then their friends tell them about job openings, your name is more likely to come up.
And again, like dating, the most important thing to remember is to be yourself. Not finding ajob right away doesn’t mean you’re not hirable, it only means you haven’t found the right fit. I can only imagine the bajillions of jobs in New York for designers, even if it means starting out slow. (forgive me, everyone, for the following analogy) Sometimes you have to date the ugly girl before you know enough to date the prom queen.
Posted on May 6, 2006
Bennett said:
A few other things to think about … Find out about the “actual” job openings for sure, but maybe search out a couple dream jobs as well. Instead of papering the entire town with resumes to places that don’t have opening, give a focused effort on a couple dream jobs. Even if they don’t have a job opening at the moment, there is a very small chance that they will have one in the near future. If you have an outstanding book, they will remember you. If they agree to review your book and they don’t have a job opening, you still come out ahead because you have one more perspective on your work.
Even though it probably isn’t good to pester someone to no end, there is always the exception. Sagmeister tells the story of bothering Tibor Kahlman until Tibor finally gave in and gave him a job at M & Co. Of course, maybe that just works for Sagmeister. Never-the-less there is a space in-between annoying and shy that job applicants should be in. I know some places won’t consider you if they don’t get a call after they receive your resume. They want to know that you are truly interested in them and that they aren’t one in a list of thirty other jobs you are applying for (even if you are).
On another note, don’t just think that design jobs come from your designer friends. I think it is Malcolm Gladwell that talks about how most jobs references don’t come from the people you are closest to, but your casual contacts. You are just as likely to hear about design jobs from non-designers as you are from you close designer friends. Part of the reason for this, is that they operate in a different sphere than you, and know about things that you don’t. I can credit one job to AIGA contacts, one to a random person my parents met at a fair, one job from a high-school friend I hadn’t talked to in years and one to an online job listing. Point is, you never know where you are going to find the job.
Nate, I think the dating analogy should stop before you get to the “Sometimes you have to date the ugly girl before you know enough to date the prom queen” level. This is philosophy is perfectly acceptable in the job market, but I hope that no one dates a girl just to get to the “next level”. Your analogy is good, but it can only go so far.
Posted on May 8, 2006
Nate Voss said:
Bennett, look at it like this: I wouldn’t be working where I am today if I didn’t work a “starter job” for a few years to know what I was doing first. Sorry to say “ugly girls.” All women are beautiful in their own way. Not all jobs can say the same. In fact, some jobs flat out suck. And when you’re starting out, you may have to work one of those jobs for a little while.
And I agree there is a fine line between persistence and pestering. My point is not to cross it. Persistence is a strong, not-giving-up attitude; pestering is frigging annoying and will hurt your chances. Tell me that’s not true of both worlds.
—
PS: The analogy never goes too far! You should hear the stuff we cut out!
Posted on May 8, 2006
Bennett said:
Nate, The analogy just doesn’t carry over in that area. Yes, the starter job is a real thing, and it is totally acceptable, but there is no parallel with dating in that particular instance. That is all I was saying. I have never met a girl who wants to know that a guy has had two years experience with a previous “starter girl”.
Posted on May 8, 2006
Nate Voss said:
No, but you can use the experience from your past relationships (like, when not to say “you look fat” or “your creative direction sucks”) when trying to move forward and eventually land a better, more successful job/relationship. That’s my point here. Get experience = know how to handle yourself. Except that I’m sure you were just as awesome with the ladies when you were 15 as you are now, right? So maybe it doesn’t work in that case.
Hey, If you don’t want to believe in the theory, that’s fine. As for that, I’m sure you’re not saying you’ve never heard of getting a date through a friend, a random person your parents know, a high-school buddy you haven’t seen in years, or online-dating? I’m not trying to say you’re wrong. But don’t hate on the analogy, man. It’s never done anyone any harm.
Posted on May 8, 2006
Stephanie said:
To say students don’t learn about budgets in school isn’t entirely true. As a student I am enrolled in a class that requires me to know what the cost of production is and to keep track of my time, and this isn’t my first class requiring me to do this. Just so you know, some school do teach it.
Posted on May 8, 2006
Nate Voss said:
Really? Masters program or undergraduate? Because that’s cool, and very valuable information to learn.
Posted on May 8, 2006
Bennett said:
“it’d be nice to do a few features on great currently active designers/firms/agencies, just throw ‘em out… . but why don’t we offset all of the making fun of bad design with standing in awe of good design.”
zj gray, It seems like complaints like this keep coming up about the Design Cast. I understand what you are saying, but I think there is plenty of praise going around in this industry. Pick up any major design publication and they take care of praising and pointing out great work. I think it is just as healthy to critique poorly designed work on the blogs and podcasts.
Posted on May 8, 2006
Stephanie said:
Nate, It’s The Creative Center, so it’s an undergrad program. They like to make sure that we’re exposed to all the stuff we’d need to know before they let us out in the real world.
Posted on May 8, 2006
Forss F. said:
I like the podcast a lot, have listened to many episodes, but wow just when I thought Nate couldn’t be any more of a super-know-it-all, he tops himself. I found it rather funny how the other hosts sounded not 100 percent sold on the theory, and whenever they tried to say so, they were cut off by Nate. Hysterical arrogance. Don’t get me wrong, its always an enjoyable listen, I only wish the main host would stop acting so full of himself and let other people talk sometimes…come to think of it, this is why I enjoy the show so much, especially when the other hosts call him on it.
“(throwaway line spoken in bad east coast accent)” - Nate “What are you, from Brooklyn now?” -Tom
Best line of this weeks show.
Keep up the good work.
-FF
Posted on May 9, 2006
Enid G. Diamond said:
I’m a day or two (four) behind on this, but come on - hysterical arrogance? Nate, I suspect this post came from one of the “ugly girls” you dated early on and never called back…
Posted on May 13, 2006
Mike Anderson said:
Ok, don’t you think limiting anything design-related to just the Mac platform is… uh, narrow-minded and frankly stupid? Truth is, your aunt should be using the Mac, they are much more user friendly, and the PC is obviously faster. Ask anyone who has tried the Macbook. Seems that all that time the Intel was faster. huh.
Posted on June 9, 2006
Kevin Sweeney said:
I agree 100% Mike. I think it’s pretty stupid for some people to be so elitist when both platforms can get the job done.
Posted on July 6, 2006
Kevin Sweeney said:
I also think it’s hilarious that you guys are crying about how expensive Window Professional is when Apple computers cost hundreds more than PCs lol.
Posted on July 6, 2006
Nate Voss said:
This is not the perfect place to bash the PC vs. Mac drum. But for my two cents, Macs are worth hundreds more than PCs. That’s why we pay it.
Posted on July 6, 2006
Sally said:
And if your body is not so perfect (see “resume”), what should you do? Take some lessons? Or be satisfied with what you have? ;) How we can find a good job with the lack of working experience?
Posted on September 12, 2007
Nate Voss said:
Sally,
It’s like watching What Not to Wear. You can’t dress for the body you want, you must dress for the body you have. I have some experience with this in the non-metaphor world. First, make sure your resume is the pinniacle of typographic design. Designers will learn as much about you from your resume layout as they will from the content of it. Second, and I have said this to many people, don’t wait for clients or jobs to get experience. If you’re throing a party, design an invite. Brother have a baby? Design the announcement. Wedding invites are always huge. If you look around, there’s always something that can be designed, and picking those up will keep you sharp.
—nv—
Posted on September 12, 2007
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Posted on November 4, 2008