The chance to create a show’s poster for a band you admire is, in my opinion, one of the best projects a graphic designer and/or artist can have the chance to do. The client isn’t representing a “major line of clothing for a fortune 500 company,” and should not be judged as such. In fact, it is an opportunity to do something graphically impactful without client restrictions. And the payoff? Many bands (excluding many of the nationally successful ones) cannot afford expensive posters and designers, and the very chance to create the poster — that fans from all over will forever associate with the show — is the reward. These posters become memorabilia, and if the band’s any good, collector’s items.
The visual message behind the posters might not be crystal clear, but the fans do pick up on them, as the designers are often fans themselves. To become even a small part of the bandmember’s (hopeful) journies to the rank of rockstar is also a pretty good feeling. I don’t doubt for a moment that the design is appreciated wholly, and money shouldn’t be the only gauge of it. The design “challenge” might not be the same as it is for a huge corporation, but the freedom in designing a show poster is priceless.

Just to clarify the anomaly of Hatch Show Print.

Hatch is owned by the Country Music Hall of Fame. In the 1990’s Hatch was hemoraging, so the CMF bought them to save them, and Hatch began to make a profit almost instantly.

They complete between 600 and 650 jobs a year, ranging between 200-500 dollars for an average job. While being owned by the CMF, they are protected against most things, and will continue to do jobs well into the future.

Some of them are art, some are advertising, some are outsider art, some are design, some are total crap. whatever. I frequent Gigposters.com and kind of feel like posters are the DIY way of getting your design “work” out. some people can make a living, but most are doing it for beer money and the love of bands and the process.

I have been doing my own posters for a little over a year, as a hobby, and for me it’s just a fun side-project where I can do whatever I want. I almost like the process of printing a poster more than the design phase or the finished product. Screenprinting is just fun. You should do it too!

whatever a gig poster is, I’d much rather see a screenprinted poster than another Xeroxed flier on goldenrod!

I guess my opinion is that “Dada” didn’t happen because clients had a lot to say about what was happening. It was a movement and designers of the time wanted to do something different than what they got to do every day. People responded to that and they were remembered.

I do feel that most of the points you make are valid to a degree, but they also put a very high wall around what design is and what it’s purpose is. If design is a vehicle to influence culture than I would believe that these posters are the highest form of design available to us at the moment. If design is only about getting paid and operating within a certain base of rules then I guess it explains why so many of us are setting around our offices complaining with the “Golden-Handcuffs” fastend tight.

Good questions and good answers guys and gals.

I think that gigposters are a funny thing. And like gunsho said, it’s pretty much impossible to boil them down to an easy answer.

• Yes there is a client. Is it like working with Bank of America? Probably not.

• Spec work is bad for design and bad for designers. But hopefully gigposter artists are at least getting into shows, selling the prints, or getting something in return for their effort. So to that end, I hope it’s NOT devaluing design in general.

• The band success issue. Yeah. That is a tough one. If I were in a band I’m not sure how I’d feel about a designer making a dollar off of “my name.” But I’d like to think that as an artistic entrepreneur I would be open to that kind of thing.

• Art vs. Design = beating a dead horse. How many advertisements are artistic? It really doesn’t matter. If they are appropriate for the group, then they work. It really matters a lot less what they look like, than if they work.

• People who are try hard enough can make a living at anything. Gigposters are no different.

• I’ve won awards for making posters. But I’d like to think that it was because they were well designed. Whatever the case, I suppose that’s an issue you would have to take up with judges who give poster designers awards, rather than the poster designers themselves. ???

• Yes the posters get hung. Usually. Obviously it varies from one designer/promoter to the next. Walk by any Homers or Recycled Sounds or CoffeeHouse. They’re EVERYWHERE.

I don’t think gigposters devalues design. When a design firm does pro-bono work for a non profit agency nobody complains about it devaluing design. Whats taken into account in most situations is the clients budget. If you were doing a poster for U2 you would obviously be able to make more off that job then you would with an indie upstart. The point that it does begin to devalue design in my opinion is when promoters and labels find a site like gigposters and contact a bunch of designers to do some spec work on a tour poster then they just pic the best one. But thats up to us as graphic designers and artists to educate them. As for the art or design debate i think it really depends on what background your from. The music that is represented on these posters is artistic, beautiful, trendy, loud, subjective, simple, etc. it has an audience to reach and connect with. The people that listen to the music are the people designing the posters which makes it more genuine. Most posters pull from experiences from live shows or lyrics, things that if you loved the band’s music you would understand. this is where i think gigposters lose people because if they don’t know the music they complain about not understanding the poster art. So in many ways poster art is design because it has an exact audience to interact with, and hopefully draw in new people that find the poster art interesting. I think it’s great that design and art blurr on this issue for people. even in school i’ve always hated how the two were divided and designers were thrown into this stereotype of black turtle necks and stuffy award shows. And “artists” were the blessed few that ascended to great heights. The people that inspire me are the ones doing this work because they love music and the people that it involves. great work comes from the people that have good design sensibilities and artistic vision. They’re not looking at the last CA annual and trying to design like it. The posters are inspired by music. music is an industry that plays heavily off trends and expression, so I think the posters will always have these qualities, and yes, you’ll see people pick up on that and you’ll see posters with similar qualities, when we set up the show me and mike weihs were talking about how there was probably a 1 in 5 chance that we would be picking up a poster with a bird on it. Hell, even our graphic noise poster had a bird on it. Thats why I think you see such a dominance in the annuals of these posters. there loud and clever and just because it doesn’t communicate to you doesn’t mean it doesn’t hit it’s intended audience. I hope i’m not making this sound lofty, or that poster design is better than people’s day to day work. Award contests at least in my experiences have always kind of divided people into a pecking order, and more than not, it seems based on style, rather than good communication. But there is a lot of good design out there and i’ve never needed a piece of paper hanging on my wall in a cheap plastic frame to tell me that. As for question 7, all of the above, our posters get hung, given out, signed, and traded all over town. If you love music and expressive design/art?? embrace it with both arms, Sidekick does.

Come on over and join our forums. We WELCOME you…. and this discussion.

but wear a cup.

and step over the dead horses.

im kelly clarkson

I’m self employed. I work in my pajamas all day…and I make a ridiculous amount of money.

Have fun in the cubicle college boy.

Who’s the lame one now?

Denny…we speak your name.

My thoughts:

Of course there is a client. Anyone who designs a gig poster obviously has the band/musicians in mind and knows that they probably won’t be able to sell anything if the band doesn’t approve. This is just as much a client as any. Each poster a designer creates is also risking their name/business/reputation as a good gig poster designer. In some terms we are our own client. Just because gig posters often start as a blank “canvas” (few restrictions from the band) this does not mean it is any easier to design or create than a something for a large corporate client

Any designer who thinks that gig posters devalue design is not thinking about the true meaning of design. The gig poster is the purest form of design and creative expression. It is what we are all aiming for: to be able to communicate for an audience in a creative way. Who says design has to = money. Whatever happened to the artist in us?

Art vs design. Why does this matter? Art = Design Design = Art If we as designers don’t believe in this, than what are we designing for? A piece of work that is heavily directed by the client, never to push the limits or test the audience. Something that might make a few bucks, but will never be appreciated nor rejected by the public. How boring have we become? No thanks.

If you truly enjoy something so much, you will find a way to make a living off it.
What ever happened to the student in us that truly wants to be experimental? Most of the poster artists I know including myself, this is our labor of love, our hobby, what we do and practice in all of our spare time. In turn this “side work” reflects heavily on how I design during the day. It has forced me to test my limits and not become stale.

I hate how the design community is always up in arms about awards. An award means nothing to me, but a way to share my work with others and try to inspire them and be inspired by them. If you are truly jealous by this, then design one for yourself and see how challenging it is to create a well-designed gig poster.

Anyone can have the chance to design a gig poster. Weather it is designed well, that is up for debate. I think this is the reason I enjoy it so much. The great community of people I have met that challenge me, the work that I have been inspired by, and the aspect of getting dirty with ink and doing something hands on, it is all worth it.

Try it for yourself and then comment here.

1. Yes, of course there is a client if you are doing poster work legitimately. The client is the band, the management, and the venue. Sometimes we work closely with one of them, sometimes not. But it always has to be appropriate for who you’re working for. That is the basic responsibility of a graphic designer.

2. Maybe. This is a tough one because we get so much more from our poster work than money. But yeah, of course, if everyone is doing something for free why would anyone pay for it?

3. For us we do posters for bands we enjoy. And we have started doing less and less posters for bands that don’t need the promotion.

4. Gigposters are advertisements. If they are more about self expression and/or style and don’t communicate anything about the band or concert…well then they are failed advertisements. Simple.

5. Please don’t assume we make a living off of making gigposters. We do not. However, doing this poster work has worked as a great form of self promotion, getting us projects that pay the bills.

6. Awards are fairly meaningless. That’s not to say they cannot be useful in getting new clients. But in the end it’s just the opinion of a few folks. We’re always grateful to get work accepted and appreciate it as it’s a great form of advertising for us.

7. The poster are intended to be hung. Once they are handed over to the venue, or sent to the band…it is out of our control. The concert poster has also seem to have taken on a new role as an almost expected form of merchandise for bands as well.

In regards to some other comments…

What is the “screen printed look?” Not sure I understand that. It’s just ink on paper.

I do feel that the “poster scene” or whatever is super saturated right now. I’m sure as time goes on the people who really love doing will continue on doing strong work and a large majority of the rest will fall away.

And personally…I don’t think about this stuff much. I just do what I do and try to keep moving forward. So, there’s that.

This discussion was sent to me by its author…..just want to chime in on a few points:

We don’t make a living on doing posters alone. We do lots of other types of work for a diverse list of clients. We do make a profit on posters though, and depending on the client that profit varies. There is always a client, be it an agreeable, supportive venue or promoter, or as in the bulk of our work from the last 2 years, a band member/manager/record label. Working with promoters and venues is nice because they have a tremendous amount of trust in what we all do and then still make a point to hang the work, although on a much smaller scale than in past years.

I am actually increasingly suprised by our clients and how design savvy they can be. One of our poster clients who I won’t name works very closely with art directors and even intergrates their own ideas and work when applicable. Another poster client keeps an eye on design and illustration annuals for new talent. I know this isn’t the norm, but I wanted to offer it as food for thought.

As a professional graphic designer, let me just add this one bit of info I recently related to some students at a portfolio review.

If you want a job as a professional graphic designer, do not show me a porfolio full of posters you designed for a band. Any designer worth his salt can do a “cool” band poster. I expect that you can. It is a given. End of conversation.

I want to know if you can do real client work. Can you do a cool bank poster? Can you do a cutting-edge logo for a delivery company? Can you get me excited about engines? Blow me away with your annual report for the dog food company.

Great post.

“If you want a job as a professional graphic designer, do not show me a porfolio full of posters you designed for a band”

This is true. Whenever we see student portfolios full of posters we tell them the same thing.

I will add that diversity is good.

It’s certainly not a given. Ever. Nothing is a given.

Hey. I’m with Dave on the point that we don’t want to see portfolios filled with band posters. It is an entirely different kind of challenge when you are tasked with designing something for about evaporator coils or engines, than when you get to design something for a band.

Over the past 15 years, I have designed more band posters than I could possibly count. I can clearly see the influence that DIY or band poster/record cover art has had over the larger design community. Take a look at the dodge charge microsite for example. The feedom you are given when working on these pieces is a breeding ground of experimentation and a place to test new ideas or techniques. Bands are real clients and communicating their sound, style, and energy can be a real challenge. Its also a real opportunity to let loose. The important thing to remember is that its more likely that your client will make evaporator coils, so you have to be able to bring that energy and excitement to those clients as well.

Just my two cents.

There’s really no difference between rock posters and any other kind of work, in that you have a client who needs to get their message to customers. Skulls and flames may not be appropriate for say… an accounting firm. I have corporate clients and freelance clients. It doesn’t take any kind of degree or pretension to discern the difference in their needs. I have never had a client look at my work and be turned off by the fact that I can work in both worlds. Believing that your work is somehow more valid because you have a degree, or your clients pay more is silly. If it helps you feel better about your work day, congratulations, but it isn’t necessarily true.

Design is only as good as the concept behind it. There are plenty of posters out there that “look cool” but don’t have any meaning behind them. But there are a hell of a lot more that are great design with solid ideas behind them.

The same goes with any other form of graphic design. Like Dave Selden said, show me you can work with a client, a challenge, a deadline and then what you can do. I’m sure that you’ll find the best gigposter designers deal with these issues. The rest are just doing what they think “looks cool”.

“How much to you have to prove to a rock star about experimenting or going off on a creative tangent? My guess is none, or at least very little.”

It seems simple doesn’t it? Well, often times it’s not. Larger bands on major labels have a lot of people working for them. Getting a poster design approved by the band’s management AND record label, who’s job it is to keep the band’s best interests in mind, is not always an easy task. Just like any other business, certain bands have a “look” that they are comfortable with and trying to break them out of that is not easy.

Michael, Jason, Allen, Denny, Karen, Curt … Thanks everyone for your comments. Some very great points made. I appreciate your honesty. I didn’t want this to come off as me being and expert, I just wanted to learn a little more about how this whole industry works. I am fascinated by these beautiful posters, I just wanted to approach it from an objective view point (if that is possible).

Just to comment on a couple thoughts on the gigposter.com forum thread. I do actually do some of my own printing already. I’m not actually looking for approval from my peers to do gig posters. And I always find it fascinating that when certain people read an opinion they don’t like, they just disregard it by saying … “Some people think too much”. I’ve also heard comments that these points have been beaten to death already. Well, for those of us that don’t visit gigposters.com daily, this maybe our first discussion about the subject. As I’ve stated, I’m fairly new to the gig poster world, so my ears are open.

A big thank you to those that migrated over from gigposters.com and left some intelligent responses.

One thing I do like about the gig poster scene is that it really is a different beast. It seems to be the perfect marriage of design and art. I don’t want to get into a design vs. art discussion, because that will never be resolved. The screen printed poster genre, is fascinating in that it does seem to defy categorization. It is a blank canvas with a great client.

“If design is a vehicle to influence culture than I would believe that these posters are the highest form of design available to us at the moment.”

Allen, I do see your point. Design does not have to be tied to budgets … but I also don’t see elevating gig posters to the level of the “highest form of design” as healthy.

There’s really no difference between rock posters and any other kind of work

Like it or not, there is a difference in many of these projects. This is probably not a bad thing, but they are different. It is a different model, and I am just trying to wrap my mind around it. The compensation to most gig posters is not the money … but a myriad of other varied things. The fact that some of these get sold at the concert also makes them different. In this case you are making a product instead of an advertising or branding piece (which is the traditional model for a show poster).

I left you the most useful comment out of the bunch but you ignored it.

I guess I’ll have to speek geek so you get it.

As Yoda once said, ‘There is no try.’

The only thing that bothers me about the whole gig poster thing is when I see so much of it in awards shows. Not that there aren’t some amazing designs in the genre, but I’m just not sure how you judge it’s value as graphic communication. Do you judge a band poster on beauty alone or can you really figure out what it’s trying to communicate? The same can be said for CD packaging, which often seems arbitrary and free of a message.

Of course, I say all this as someone who is wildly jealous of some of the band work that is being done…

“The only thing that bothers me about the whole gig poster thing is when I see so much of it in awards shows”

That’s like saying “Why are there so many brochures in award shows?” Or “What is this brochure about cell phones really trying to communicate?”

There’s no reason to separate concert poster work from any other work done. A poster’s value as graphic communication is no different than the other crap you see in design annuals.

I completely hate seeing gig posters in design annuals and getting awards as well, but not exactly for the same reason.

You can’t judge a gig poster purely at face value. You’ve gotta know the music and the scene.

I don’t think that the judges of these contests really know what they’re looking at and only pick pretty pictures.

Gig posters can and should be the most basic form of communication. Gut level…none of this concept crap. You look at it and know what is going on. Rock show, this band at this place on this day.

I make rock posters. I don’t make them for you. I don’t make them to get jobs. I don’t give a shit about yours or anyone elses approval of them as pieces of graphic design. I hate subtelty. I make shit that screams.

Rock and roll is stupid. It’s simple and fun. It’s not my job to educate the audience as to what good design is based on what some college professor or annual report makes deems good.

I think a good deal of you, especially the ones that feel the need to intellectualize graphic design, need to step back away from yourselves and realize that the general public does not give a shit about graphic design or concepts or typefaces or pantone colors or whatever. All they know is when something looks good, when something is confusing or when something looks like shit.

Most of the time looking cool is way more important than being clever. People like cool. They get that. Clever is hit or miss.

Also… you don’t have to lie down and design things for people who make evaporator coils if you don’t want to.

If you want to work with “cool” “fun” clients, you need to be able to show them that you have the ability to do so.

You think a skateboarding company or a motorcycle company cares if you can design a poster for a bank?

“RichieGoodtimes said:

You’re wrong, Dave.

Most designers cannot do a cool band poster.

Gigposters.com is undeniable proof of that.” No kidding. Check out this page- if the guy doesn’t rehash skulls on his posters, he’ll just use pictures of himself. http://www.gigposters.com/designers.php?designer=33713

Wow. Sounds like some people have spent a lot of time and energy practicing responses to comments that are critical of their work. I hear the bells of subjectivity clanging, “People can like whatever they want. If somebody calls elephant shit art, it’s art.” However, calling a discussion of a type of work, in this case regarding its economics and its relationship to graphic design, dirty names is not a way to disprove the discussion’s relevance. Someone might listen to, “Actually, I’ve had good luck finding jobs by using my gig posters as examples.” No one intelligent will listen to, “Fuck you! I get all kinds of work because of my posters!” Could we get back to discussing the topic? If you don’t like the topic, don’t read it.

This discussion reminds me of an article I read awhile back.

“…the practice of design necessarily involves solving problems. Further, these problems present constraints; whether these originate in the client’s budget, the target audience’s availability, or in the technical limitations of the medium is immaterial.

The important part of this idea is that the task of the designer is to present the client with a solution within an ambit circumscribed by factors beyond his or her control, factors that limit the ability to unrestrainedly impose personal taste. When a designer—a Paul Rand, a Saul Bass, a Neville Brody—can consistently succeed at this and still develop a recognizable personal style, well, that (by my lights, anyway) is where all the artistry resides.”

It’s a great read(http://www.alistapart.com/articles/bathingape/).

And for those of you who say designers couldn’t create posters of this calibur, I suggest to you that there are probably just as many poster artists that couldn’t create memorable work within the constraints put upon them by many clients. Don’t short-change the value of developing creative solutions within pre-ordained constraints. To overcome those challenges are far more rewarding than doing whatever you want, whenever you want. Because sometimes (and as designers, we probably don’t want to admit this) even better work can come from useful client feedback.

To Denny, Karen, Michael, Allen, Curtis and Jason, I appreciate the comments. Being able to defend your take on this subject is important. It gives credibility to this discussion. And I love the great work. Keep it up.

Awesome…I didn’t even click on that link but I know it goes to me. I don’t have to look at that to know that I’ve only got ONE poster on there with a skull on it, so you’re only half right. I do think it’s hysterical to put myself on posters though and so did the bands I did them for.

Also…I take offense to being called a graphic designer, so watch your tongue.

Whats your work look like, dude? I don’t need to actually see it. Just tell me which tan mafia design group it most resembles.

John, In my defense, I only knew that one of those posters was yours.

“but I also don’t see elevating gig posters to the level of the “highest form of design” as healthy.-

Why not?