I’ve been working professionally for 4 years now and have made myself a “before and after” file full of submitted ads I’ve redesigned for the publication for which I work.

What impression do you feel that would leave with an interviewer for an agency if shown work of this nature in an interview?

Adrian, the first thing I thought when reading this article was ‘if I were one of the people who interviewed for that job, I would think you were a huge dick for beginning your story this way.’ The second thing that became apparent is that you must not have much, if any, experience working with young designers. Honestly I believe you must have none, judging by both the tone and the viewpoint of your article. The majority of the advice you dole out above is self-important garbage that will do little more than discourage a young designer from entering the field.

When working with young designers you have to become adept at spotting potential, and weeding through the mistakes they make due to lack of experience. Rarely do young designers leave school fully-formed and articulate, and if you are in a position where you are going to hire one, you need to realize that. Find someone who has potential and a drive to learn; then become a mentor to them. Young designers are the most creative, the most adventurous, and the most daring designers on the planet. They are not limited by years of jaded client feedback and compromises. Their inexperience is one of their best qualities, and they should not be coached to hide it.

First of all… great post, Adrian. Helping people trying to get a foot in the door is a noble cause.

Secondly, while I feel Nate’s pain on needing to give young designers a chace… I think that having a reasonable expectation of entry-level knowlege and abilities is neccessary.

I did portfolio review for the SF AIGA several months ago, and was amazed at how many graduating seniors had no idea as to the level of expectations that agencies have NOT ONLY for the work itself, but for how the work is presented. The most beautiful packaging project ever can be disregarded quickly because of crappy photography of that project which shows sloppiness and poor ability to tell the difference.

Employers are always judging your taste level and attention to detail, regardless of experience.

Just a few interesting stories…I live in a mid-sized city. I am still in school, but I have been freelancing for a few years for some rather large local clients. I am easily (and I mean easily) one of the top designers in our program at school. Here are just three of the recent positions I have interviewed for, all listed under ‘graphic designer’

1. Interviewer liked my resume, called me in. Explained the position: running the entire office, taking all the phone calls, managing all the client communication, graphic design, pre-press work, doing all the paperwork, doing everything on a circa 1992 pc in Corel Draw, and communicating by email on a different computer that was no less than 200 feet away from the office area. Salary offered: 6.50/hr.

2. Interviewer (for a large business) disregarded my extensive portfolio, resume, and references, and discounted me because I didn’t include enough ‘clip-art’ type examples, and when I asked if they had entered the Addy Awards this year (all the larger business here do…) she sneered that ‘we don’t care about winning things just to impress people.’ She hadn’t even taken the time to look at my website, my portfolio, or even my resume that I sent them no less than a week before the interview. I asked what size department they had, and she told me it was a company secret. 9.00/hr

3. Interviewer for a mid-size business that does local small cities newspapers gave me a grand total of 15 minutes to design an entire ad AND layout a newspaper column from scratch in Quark. After 15 minutes asked me what was taking so long. 9.00/hr

Nate, as much as I respect your opinions and appreciate the awesome podcasts, Adrian is spot-on on this one. Students I talk to do zero outside research nor do they take the time to get their own equipment and learn the real ins and outs. We have a fantastic design program, but when I look at the Senior shows each year, I can only snicker. I look through the portfolios and see work that looks high-school level and obvious school projects and tutorials. And that is AFTER taking a portfolio preparation course, as well as every other course that stresses professionalism. Adrian may sound like a dick, but guess what? That’s business. Would YOU trust the design eye of a company that would hire someone at that skill level? I should hope not. They can keep their 6.50 an hour, I’d rather hold out for a department or firm that knows design.

Fame:

1. You don’t want that job.

2. You really don’t want that job, and your next question should have been “then why the hell did you even call me in here?”

3. You also, strangely enough, do not want that job.

Those are all terrible jobs, working for people who are not looking for people like you to fill them. They only want little production monkeys, and you, and all of your fellow students, should avoid them.

I like the controversy about this topic. Not just saying yes and amen to an article like this is important.

On one hand this information is very valuable for us design students and you might get your foot in the door of a respected agency that has been around and is somewhat conservative.

However I dare to say that you might not need to follow all or may even be better off not to follow some of the advice in different cases. Your agency, Adrian, only represents one of the many mindsets in the industry. I know some who are getting very far with a somewhat artistic approach as long as they can show that they understand design in addition to their artwork. Styling is an aspect of design that shouldn’t be neglected. Also the recent graduation date is not necessarily a bad thing depending on the needs of the agency.

I do agree on most other items though, even if some of them should be common sense…. relax ;)

I’m not sure if Adrian’s comment about the BADG Podcast is aimed towards the tone most shows tend to take or the impression i get that it’s host is over-powering if not a complete asshole half the time.

Not that i don’t like Nate. Because i do. I have never met him. I think he writes well, has a fantastic proccess, and designs things that i would never consider second guessing. I buy his approach and he makes beautiful work.

BUT

His tone on the design cast is less than sucessfull (imho). I think he has a tendancy to lead the show onto the wrong paths and away from the theme. I feel like i get less time spent interviewing the subjects and more time spent executing jokes on everyone eles’s behalf. There just doesn’t seem to be much if any professionalism. I can see that his co-hosts try to reign him in somewhat and throw the show back on track with the fundemental questions but still.

Anyway, this is just an opinion but when i read the above comment it seemed like something was being said that i could relate to and i just wanted to try and expand on it for everyone’s consideration.

By the way Adrian, i think this was a great post and i can see that a lot of the points you touched on resonate well with my own personal experience, however little i’ve had. I’m able to see that people in higher positions responsible for employing young designers are going to be looking at all of the above. If they’re smart.

Andrew, Although I think Nate may have misread Adrian’s tone on this post, I hardly think his tone on the BADCast is unsuccessful. He, and of course Donovan, have a great audio presence and create a great show. It is unpretentious, insightful and most importantly … fun. I think we could all strive to put a little more fun in design. Nate is confident and opinionated, but that makes for an entertaining show. They put a ton of work and passion into the show and its success has shown this. While you are entitled to your opinion, I thought I would throw mine in there as well. Now back to the topic at hand … the original post.

I’m not a big Nate fan, nor am I a big Nate hater. I’ve listened to all BADCasts and I must say that I’ve never considered him annoying, an asshole or anything in that general direction. I enjoy the casts enormously, although I’d love to get another one in the style of Typography Island because not only was it highly entertaining, it also was highly insightful.

Back on topic: I also would like to know what Niki asked: Is it worth listing any design competitions that you’ve won on your resume?

Hey, I don’t post here often, but I’ve gotta say that—as a subscriber of the podcast since the get go—Nate Voss’s take is great. I wouldn’t want to see him change a thing. You have to be edgy to keep things interesting and moving along… and a show needn’t be exactly linear to move forward.

What would this (or any other forum) be without hard questions and uncomfortable answers? Design isn’t easy and it is not for everyone. But isn’t that part of the reason we love it? Keep up the good work, Nate.

I am an Art Director at an East Coast publishing house. After interviewing 12 potential candidates for an entry-level design position, My superiors and I agreed upon one particular female with a 4-year degree, who had by far the cleanest work in her portfolio. No sooner than the day she was hired did she set about surfing the web, making personal phone calls, walking out to smoke, text messaging her boyfriend, emailing her friends, shopping for shoes, and filling out surveys on my space. The point here is that graphic design has become a lazy, easy way through school for young people who really dont care about the job. A lot of young designers, dont really want to design, they just need a job. doing design work is trendy and in my area, there are a lot more designers than there are job openings. With respect to the Art not being in a portfolio, in my opinion, artists who design, seem to be more rounded creatively than designers who cant draw stick figures.

As a freelance designer, I have been on both sites of applying and receiving job applications. I recently placed and advert for freelance desgners to subcontract out some of my work too, and was amazed by how few applicants actually sent me the information I specificaly asked for in the advert. I think its important to make sure your application fulfils any requirements in the advert. If you can’t answer a job ad fully how are you going to answer a brief?